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Podcast With John Ray, Host of The Price and Value Journey (Part 2)

John Ray is a show host and producer of North Fulton Business Radio and The Price and Value Journey. North Fulton Business Radio, a Business RadioX affiliate, is the longest running podcast in the North Fulton region of Georgia, featuring a wide range of business and community leaders. The Price and Value Journey is devoted to solo and small firm professional services providers and covers issues such as pricing, value, and business development.

 

John invited me onto his Price and Value Journey podcast for a lively discussion of topics of interest to him and his business audiences. Here are the links to John’s website and our podcast, where you can learn more about John, his work, and his recent book, The Generosity Mindset: A Journey to Business Success by Raising Your Confidence, Value, and Prices.


Here's the link to Part 1 of our conversation, "What Adam Smith Actually Said About Greed." The remainder of this post is the overview John wrote about Part 2 of our conversation. Naturally, I hope you enjoy participating by listening as much as John and I did by recording.


Image Credit: John Ray


Paul Knowlton on Bad Theology, Plantation Economics You Practice on Yourself, and How Mars Built a Billion-Dollar Legacy on Mutuality (The Price and Value Journey, Episode 160)

 

In Part 2 of a two-part conversation, Paul Knowlton, attorney and partner at Stanton Law in Atlanta, and co-author of Better Capitalism: Jesus, Adam Smith, Ayn Rand, and MLK Jr. on Moving from Plantation to Partnership Economics, joins host John Ray on The Price and Value Journey to explore the mindsets that kill sustainable pricing and what you can do about it.


Paul saw a tattoo on a pastor friend’s bicep that read “bad theology kills.” That phrase captures why so many professionals severely underprice themselves.


Whether from explicit religious backgrounds, leftist political thinking, or just generational poverty stories, we carry beliefs that profit is evil, poverty is noble, and loving your neighbor means sacrificing yourself.


Paul shares his painful story of starting a low bono law firm after selling his intellectual property boutique firm. He had to shut it down when his patient wife finally said they literally couldn’t afford his generosity. The lesson is that you cannot afford to be generous if you don’t have the resources to be generous.


This conversation covers the Mars candy company (family wealth of $117 billion built on mutuality since the early 1900s), why practicing plantation economics on yourself means extracting your own time by not charging or not charging enough, the Rotary Four-Way Test Herbert J. Taylor created during the Great Depression to save a company from bankruptcy, and how to stay committed to mutual benefit when bad actors seem to be winning.


Paul and John discuss firing bad clients, finding your herd of like-minded professionals, and why the economic system should serve humans rather than humans serving the economic system.



Key Takeaways You Can Use from This Episode

  • Bad theology kills your pricing. Whether from religious background, political thinking, or generational poverty stories, many professionals believe profit is evil, poverty is noble, and loving your neighbor means only loving your neighbor. These beliefs lead to severe underpricing and unsustainable practices.


  • You cannot afford to be generous if you don’t have the resources to be generous. Paul started a low bono law firm after selling his intellectual property boutique. His wife finally told him they literally couldn’t afford it and were heading toward bankruptcy. If you don’t engage your brain, your heart will lead you down the wrong path.


  • Practicing plantation economics on yourself means extracting your own time by not charging or not charging enough for your services. Paul caught himself waving off payment from a client who stopped by with quick questions. The client insisted on paying because he needed someone with 20 or 30 years of skills to give him the fast answer.


  • Mars, Inc. candy company built $117 billion in family wealth on mutuality since the early 1900s. Their stated contract principle: they will not have contracts that are detrimental to the other party. Mars chocolates are not the cheapest option available, but consumers are willing to pay a higher price due to the perceived value and their comfort with the company.


  • The Rotary Four-Way Test saved a company from bankruptcy during the Great Depression. Herbert J. Taylor wrote it as a way of doing business: Is it the truth? Is it fair? Will it build goodwill? Will it be beneficial to all concerned? This was the ethical framework that people adhered to before Milton Friedman’s 1970 article on shareholder value changed the business landscape.


  • Bad actors get the headlines for a while but don’t last long-term. Your reputation is your most valuable asset. If you can be trusted in your work, your word-of-mouth reputation will feed your client base. It’s the long game, the marathon, not the sprint that matters.


Topics Discussed in this Episode

00:00 Introduction and Recap of Part One

01:10 Exploring Mutual Benefit in Professional Services

04:16 The Impact of Bad Theology on Pricing

05:12 Better Capitalism: Bridging Anti-Capitalism and Dog-Eat-Dog Capitalism

11:55 Mars Inc.: A Case Study in Mutuality

17:25 Practicing Plantation Economics on Yourself

24:26 The Importance of Community and Ethical Business Practices

32:33 Conclusion and Final Thoughts


[Paul here: I encourage you to jump over to my conversation with John here and hope you enjoy hearing and thinking about our exchange of ideas and their applications as much as we enjoyed recording.]


Fix Capitalism. Fix the American Dream.


Our vision is to benefit society by transforming capitalism's current core ethic of 'maximize shareholder value' to the better core ethic of 'optimize mutual value.' We achieve our vision by impacting learning, opinion, beliefs, and policy. Institute for Better Capitalism, Inc.




"This book merits close, sustained attention as a compelling move beyond both careless thinking and easy ideology."—Walter Brueggemann, Columbia Theological Seminary


"Better Capitalism is a sincere search for a better world."—Cato Institute


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